High QPR Pinot Noir #3! (American Pinot Noir vs. Burgundy Pinot Noir, wine price inflation, our first corked wine?!? Highly extracted wines)

Show Notes

Episode 93: High QPR Pinot Noir #3!  00:00

Hello! And welcome to The Wine Pair Podcast. I’m Joe, your sommelier of reasonably priced wine, and this is my wife and my wine pairing partner in crime, Carmela. And we are The Wine Pair! 

Ok, a quick orientation for those of you who may be new to the podcast - in each episode we learn about, taste and give our brutally honest review of three wines that are reasonably priced - meaning under $20 each -  and should be easy for you to find. And our podcast is made for people who want to learn more about wine, find new wines to enjoy, and just want someone to talk about wine in a fun way that normal people can understand. So, if that sounds like you, you are in the right place! And we are proud to say that we are recommended by the editors of Decanter Magazine who call us fun, irreverent, chatty, and entertaining

Carmela, this week we are back to one of my favorite topics, and one that many of our listeners seem to like, and that is trying to find good Pinot Noirs that are reasonably priced. Which, to be frank, is just getting harder and harder. Hence, the title of this episode, our third foray into this topic of finding High QPR Pinot Noir. And, just to clarify once again for those of you who may not quite remember, QPR means quality to price ratio. And the higher that quality to price ratio, the better.

And so, we are back on our quest of finding a wine with high quality for its price, which, for our podcast, means under $20. 

Some people will tell you that finding high quality Pinot Noir under $20 is a fool's errand. In fact, my cousin who actually makes wine and lives in Portland, Oregon, the state where some say the best Pinot Noir outside of Burgundy is grown and made, will argue very strongly that it can’t be done. But, we are here to prove him wrong. Frank - we are going to try and prove you wrong!

In a few minutes, we are going to spend some time talking about the difference between Old World Pinot Noir, like those found in Burgundy, with New World Pinot Noir, and in particular those found in the United States - and, by the by, I do find the wines pretty different. So, we’ll talk a bit about the American palate, why it can be different from the European palate, and so on and so forth.

But before we do that, I do want to spend a little time just talking about wine prices in general. First of all, it should not be a surprise to anyone to hear that wine prices have been going up, and I have been talking about this in some of our latest episodes, but I am wondering how long we are going to be able to keep our bar for wines on this podcast to under $20. 

According to an article from Forbes which you can find in our show notes, the pricing sweet spot for bigger wine brands is in the $15-$25 range, and our bar for reasonably priced wine in this podcast is $20, so right in the middle of that range. 

In addition, what this article says is that American consumers, and I am assuming this applies to consumers in other countries as well, are starting to spend more per bottle of wine, but drinking less wine overall. Which is an interesting trend. It seems to me that people are choosing better quality over quantity, which I think makes sense coming out of the pandemic. I find myself doing the same thing - my personal price point for wines has gone up, but, outside of this podcast, I do not drink as much wine as I did several years ago. So, I am willing to buy higher priced wines, but I am buying less wine all together. 

In fact, according to a website called the Wine Industry Advisor, the average retail price for a bottle of wine has risen primarily because American wine consumers are trading up, meaning that higher end price tiers of wines are outperforming lower ones despite economic challenges like inflation and high interest rates.

And quality wine is always hard to find at a reasonable price. In the United States, the best Pinot Noir, as I mentioned, is said to come from Oregon, and specifically the Willamette Valley of Oregon, and while it is hard to pinpoint an average price, according to the Oregon Wine Press website, the average price per bottle is in the $25-$40 price range. Which, for the average wine drinker, is pretty high, and if you are drinking that wine at a restaurant, expect the price to be 3 times higher. 

So, that is why finding High QPR wines is such an important area of focus for us, and kind of the premise of this whole podcast altogether. Because, afterall Carmela, we want to drink good wine, but we would prefer to not spend a ton of money. And you spend all the money.

On that note, again, we are going to talk about the difference between Old World and New World wines, and we have 3 Pinot Noirs we are going to taste and review today that are all under $20, believe it or not . . . 

But first . . . we have to do our shameless plug.

First, we want to thank you for listening to us and for supporting our show, and if you have not had the chance to do so yet, now would be the perfect time to subscribe to our podcast  - it is a free way to support us, and then you never have to miss a show!  - and a huge thank you to all of you who have subscribed already! 

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And, as we do every week, we’ll tell you someone we think you should tell about The Wine Pair Podcast. This week, we want you to tell anyone who is complaining about the cost of things today, especially the cost of wine. When you hear someone complaining about it, just stop them, and tell them you have a solution for their problems - and send them to our podcast! They will thank you!


ARTICLES and LINKS

• 6 Hot Wine Trends This Summer In The U.S. Market (forbes.com)
• 12 Major Wine Trends Currently Shaping U.S. Retail Market - Wine Industry Advisor 
• The Price of Pinot (oregonwinepress.com)

Topic: How is Burgundy Pinot Noir Different from American Pinot Noir? 09:51

So, I want to spend a few minutes talking about how Pinot Noir from Burgundy and other places in Europe is different from Pinot Noir made in regions outside of Europe, and in particular the United States.

One thing that we talk about a lot on this podcast is how the American palate has just sort of been tuned to be attracted to a certain kind of flavor profile in wine - and that tends to be a higher alcohol, fruitier, higher sugar, highly oaked, and lower acid style of wine. We call it “punch-you-in-face” wines, but some people refer to the style as cocktail wines. These are wines that are meant to appeal to a drinker right away because of their bold flavors, and are often made to be drunk without food. Like a cocktail.

And, as we often say, this is not really the kind of wine that you and I are most attracted to - and so we will also say again that you can judge whether or not you will like a wine that we taste by comparing and contrasting our preferences to yours. We know there are tons of people that prefer that big-bold flavor profile, and that is just fine with us. I mean, we’ll judge, but we still love you.

Now to Pinot Noir, which is a grape variety that originated in Burgundy, France. One of the main factors that will influence the style and quality of Pinot Noir, and arguably the most impactful factor, is the climate of the region where it is grown. 

According to wine experts, Pinot Noir is a delicate and sensitive grape (like me) that prefers cool to moderate climates (like me), where it can ripen slowly - which will create higher acidity and less sweetness (like me). In warmer climates, Pinot Noir can lose its acidity and freshness, and produce wines that are more jammy and higher in alcohol. 

So, this is a classic difference between Pinot Noirs produced in Europe from those in the US. Pinots in the US tend to come from warmer climates as opposed to cooler climates, and this is especially true of California wines. And, if it is not obvious, California wines dominate the US wine industry, which is part of the reason why the American palate is tuned to those types of wines. Almost 85% of wine in the US comes from California! 

According to research we have done on the interwebs, Pinot Noir from Burgundy tends to be more delicate, acidic, and earthy than Pinot Noir from other regions. Burgundy Pinot Noir, like all wines, is also influenced by the terroir - which again includes things like the soil, the climate, etc. -  of each specific vineyard, and these create some significant differences in the wine's flavor and texture. Burgundy Pinot Noir is often described as having aromas and flavors of red fruits like cherry, strawberry, and raspberry; flowers like rose and violet; spices like clove and cinnamon; and what are called earthy flavors like mushroom and forest floor. Old World Pinots will sometimes taste tart, and will be lower in alcohol. They also tend to be lighter in color than American wines. 

On the other hand, Pinot Noir from the United States, especially from California and Oregon, tend to be more fruit-forward, heavily oaked, higher in alcohol and highly extracted. And let’s nerd out for a big on what extracted means.

Extracted is a wine term that has to do with how the wine is treated during fermentation to draw out more flavor. When a wine is fermenting, things like grape skins and seeds and stems float to the top of the fermenting vessel, and this is called the cap. To extract more flavor, winemakers may push this cap back down into the juice, or may pour the fermented wine over the top of the cap. American wines, especially cheaper American wines, tend to be heavily extracted, meaning they keep pushing that crap back into the juice, and this can make the wines really high in tannin, give them an astringent or very “alcoholy” taste, and a really heavy mouthfeel. Which is why we use the term punch-you-in-the-face to describe them. They are not subtle in any way. 

American wines are also often influenced by warmer and sunnier climates in which they are grown, which can result in higher sugar levels, which means more alcohol, and lower acidity in the grapes, which means less tartness. American Pinot Noir is often described as having aromas and flavors of black fruits like black cherry, blackberry, and plum; as well as vanilla, toast, smoke, and chocolate which often come from the American oaks that are used. 

These are of course generalizations, but I would say that the core difference is that European Pinot Noirs, and in general a lot of European wines, are more subtle in flavor, meant to be drunk with food, and lower in alcohol. And, for this reason, a lot of Americans, who are used to these super extracted wines, kind of often find European wines underwhelming, and why they tend to not like Pinot Noirs as much.  

It’s not good or bad, it just is how things are. There is a great article we have in our show notes that you can get to via our website and clicking on this episode and then scrolling down, from a website called Vinfolio if you want to learn more. 

But I think we should talk about the wines we are going to taste and review today to see if any of them reach our goal of High QPR. 

ARTICLES and LINKS

• New World Pinot Noir Vs. Old-World Pinot Noir: The Key Differences - Vinfolio Blog
• https://www.decanter.com/learn/what-is-over-extraction-wine-ask-decanter-421683/#:~:text='Extraction%20is%20a%20crucial%20part,enough%20but%20not%20too%20much. 

Pinot Noir Wines We Chose for This Episode 16:38

As usual, all of the wines we have chosen for this episode are under $20, and in fact this week all of the wines are under $14, so if any of these are good, they are real bargains. And all of them should be relatively easy to find because I bought them all on wine.com. Some of these wines I know you can find in other places like bigger wine shops and grocery stores. These are all also American Pinot Noirs, and all of them have a 90 rating from a reputable wine reviewer, so we are giving these wines a legit chance to be High QPR. 

The first wine we are going to try is called Rickshaw Pinot Noir, and it comes from a few different areas in California including Santa Barbara and Monterey. This wine is said to come from coastal cool-climate vineyards, and the wine is fermented in small batches in both stainless steel and French oak. So, while this wine is oaked, French oak tends to be lighter in flavor than American oak.

This wine is pretty high in alcohol for a Pinot Noir at 13.5%, and some of that likely has to do with the fact that in 2021 there was very little rain and milder temperatures. While the winery sources grapes for many different places, they say they do seek out sustainable vineyards. 

This wine got a 90 rating from Wine Enthusiast, and so I have high hopes that this will be a good candidate for a high QPR Pinot Noir

The second wine we are going to review today is called Ghost Pines Winemaker's Blend Pinot Noir, and this wine is from 2016 and got a 90 rating from Wine Spectator, and was #95 on their top 100 wine list for 2018.  On a total side note, we used a Ghost Pines wine in our Halloween episode last year - not this wine but a Chardonnay - but we chose it because the name and label were good for Halloween, but I digress!

From what I can tell from the tasting notes and the way the winery describes it, this is going to be a very California style of Pinot Noir. I can also tell because the alcohol is really high for a Pinot Noir at 13.9%. In fact, the winery says the wine is Far from your typical, light-bodied Pinot, our Ghost Pines Pinot Noir is an altogether bigger, bolder expression So, I don’t want to pre-judge, but I am betting I am not going to totally love this wine. But, let’s wait and see. I mean, it did get on the Wine Spectator top 100 list, and I tend to trust them.

The last wine we are going to try is called Underwood Pinot Noir, and we have definitely had their wine before, but I believe we have had it in canned form. But, this time it is in the bottle, so we have classed it up a bit. This is their 2021 vintage, and Wine Enthusiast gave this wine a 90 rating and called it a Best Buy.

There is not a ton of information about this wine, such as where the grapes are sourced other than from Oregon, although they do claim that the wine is Vegan and gluten-free. There are several descriptions of the wine that I won’t go into, but I will say this is the lowest alcohol of the bunch at 13%. So, maybe, just maybe, this may be a more European style of wine - but again, we will see!

But, I think that is enough information - let’s get to drinking! We’ll take a quick break and be right back. And, if you have these wines or similar wines, drink along with us!


ARTICLES and LINKS

• https://www.rickshawwines.com/Wines/2021-RICKSHAW-Pinot-Noir?linkNum=3 
• https://www.wine.com/product/rickshaw-pinot-noir-2021/1170883
• https://thebestwinestore.com/products/ghost-pines-pinot-noir?variant=18340612374590 
• https://shop.unionwinecompany.com/products/2021-underwood-pinot-noir 

Pinot Noir Wine Pairing Tasting and Reviews 22:13

Wine: Rickshaw Pinot Noir (Click here to learn more about this wine. Affiliate link to wine.com)
Region: California
Year: 2021
Price: $10.99
Retailer: wine.com
Alcohol: 13.5%
Grapes: Pinot Noir
Professional Rating: WE 90

What we tasted and smelled in this Rickshaw Pinot Noir:

• On the nose: Fresh matchstick, cedar smoke, cherry, cherry licorice, Fall leaves, herb, grass, clay
• In the mouth: Not a lot of fruit, tomato, vegetable, not a real Pinot taste, wood, oak, smoke, barrels, could be young, wooden hope chest, a little astringent, cherry liquor, too high in alcohol, charred meat

Food to pair with this Rickshaw Pinot Noir: cheeseburger, grilled and charred meat
 
As a reminder on our rating scale, we rate on a scale of 1-10, where 7 and above means that we would buy it, and 4 and below means that we are likely to pour it down the sink, and a 5 or 6 means we are likely to drink it and finish it, but we are probably not going to buy it. 

Rickshaw Pinot Noir Wine Rating: 

• Joe: 5/10
• Carmela: 5/10

Wine: Ghost Pines Winemaker's Blend Pinot Noir (Click here to find this wine. Affiliate link to wine.com)
Region: California
Year: 2016
Price: $10.99
Retailer: wine.com
Alcohol: 13.9%
Grapes: Pinot Noir
Professional Rating: WS 90 

What we tasted and smelled in this Ghost Pines Winemaker's Blend Pinot Noir:

• On the nose: Corked. Like kissing a wet dog
• In the mouth: Corked

Food to pair with this Ghost Pines Winemaker's Blend Pinot Noir: N/A wine is corked

Ghost Pines Winemaker's Blend Pinot Noir Wine Rating: 

• No rating - Corked wine

Wine: Underwood Pinot Noir (Click here to learn more about this wine. Affiliate link to wine.com)
Region: Oregon
Year: 2021
Price: $13.99
Retailer: wine.com
Alcohol: 13%
Grapes: Pinot Noir
Professional Rating: WE 90 

What we tasted and smelled in this Underwood Pinot Noir:

• On the nose: Black cherry, dirt, clay, herb, rose, fresh flowers 
• In the mouth: Tart cherry, sour cherry candy without the sugar, light, balanced, dances on the tongue, pleasant, citrus, orange blossom, grape skins, tea bag, tart blueberry, tart raspberry

Food to pair with this Underwood Pinot Noir:  Red meat, filet mignon, chicken, baked chicken, coq au vin, potatoes au gratin with chives, eggplant parmigiana, brick oven pizza, roast, a Fall wine

Underwood Pinot Noir Wine Rating: 

• Joe: 7/10
• Carmela: 7/10

Which one of these are you finishing tonight?

• Carmela: Underwood Pinot Noir
• Joe: Underwood Pinot Noir

Taste profiles expected from American Pinot Noirs   41:58

• General 
  • Wine Folly: California: sweet black cherry to black raspberry and secondary aromas of vanilla, clove, coca-cola, and caramel; Oregon: cranberry, bing cherry fruit flavors with secondary aromas of truffle mushrooms and sometimes even a green dandelion stem flavor
• Rickshaw Pinot Noir 2021
  • Winery: Bright red-fruit aromas of raspberries, strawberries, and Rainier cherries are complimented with notes of vanilla, cedar, and nutmeg. Toasted oak, light fruit, and spice flavors are persistent on the palate and met with elegant, rich medium-textured tannins and a long, silky finish
  • BuyWinesOnline: It greets the nose with enticing aromas of ripe cherries, cranberries, and a hint of spice. The palate reveals flavors of red fruit, black tea, and a touch of earthiness, with silky tannins and a smooth, lingering finish
  • WE: Find notes of red cherry, cranberry, black tea, fresh and dried roses, basil, tarragon, toasted wood, and a desert-dust earthiness. The finish is pleasantly warm
• Ghost Pines Winemaker's Blend Pinot Noir
  • Winery: smooth, with intense flavor and richness and a vibrant, deep red color. You’ll notice notes of cherry pie, pomegranate and ripe plum. From the oak, you get suggestions of vanilla, baking spice and freshly roasted coffee beans. On the finish: plush tannins, round mouthfeel and cocoa.
  • WS: Complex and spicy, offering wild plum, blackberry, spice and tea flavors that show subtle herb shadings, ending with dusty, loamy tannins and good length.
• Underwood Pinot Noir
  • Winery: notes of raspberry, cocoa nib and vanilla bean
  • WE: Bright and bouncy, with aromas of dusty roadside raspberries, garrigue and a wee bit of cantaloupe. The wine's crisp acidity and brisk mouthfeel pairs nicely with its smooth, mostly integrated tannins. Flavors like strawberry jam on toast, beeswax and bittersweet dark chocolate complement a shot of espresso. Great value
  • Tastings.com: Aromas and flavors of ripe strawberry, cocoa nibs and red cherry, mushroom and pipe tobacco, and mesquite with a satiny, crisp, dry medium body and a tingling, charming, medium-length finish manifesting notes of toasted citrus peel, sautéed mushroom, red bramble berries, and black tea with a suggestion of oak flavor. A pleasant Pinot Noir with nice acidity and some fruit complimenting richer, warmer baking spices.

Outro and how to find The Wine Pair Podcast 45:13

Ok, so, Carmela, it is just about time for us to go, but before we do, we want to thank you very much for listening to us - and if you haven’t done so yet, now would be the perfect time to subscribe to our podcast and also a fantastic time to leave us a nice rating and review on our website or Apple podcasts or other podcast service - and it is an awesome and free way to support us and help us grow listeners.

We would also love to hear from you about a wine you would like us to taste and review. You can, leave a message for us on our website thewinepairpodcast.com and you can join our email newsletter there, too, or you can just email us at joe@thewinepairpodcast.com and tell us about a wine you are curious about, or curious what we think of it. And, follow us on Instagram and Threads so you can see pictures of all of these wines we are tasting and reviewing. 

And, next time you listen to an episode, drink along with us and see if you are tasting and experiencing the same things we are - it’s like a date night! And if you do that, we’d love to hear what you think!

Alright, with that, we are going to sign off, so thanks again, and we will see you next time. And, as we say, life is short, so stop drinking shitty wine.