Josh Wines Are . . . Meh. (The truth behind the hype. BTW, we did not give this episode a title until after we tasted the wines in our recording!)

Show Notes

Episode 109: Josh Wines are . . .  Meh.  00:00

Hello! And welcome to The Wine Pair Podcast. I’m Joe, your sommelier of reasonably priced wine, and this is my wife and my wine pairing partner in crime, Carmela. And we are The Wine Pair! 

Ok, a quick orientation for those of you who may be new to the podcast - in each episode we learn about, taste and give our honest review of three wines that are reasonably priced - meaning under $20 each -  and should be easy for you to find. And our podcast is made for people who want to learn more about wine, find new wines to enjoy, and just want someone to talk about wine in a fun way that regular people can understand. So, if that sounds like you, you are in the right place! And we are proud to say that we are recommended by the editors of Decanter Magazine who call us fun, irreverent, chatty, and entertaining

Carmela, I am not sure if you have been following, but Josh Wines are like a thing right now. And, thankfully, I am hip so I know all about it. 

Here are some recent headlines:

• Slate: What’s So Funny About Josh? There’s a cheap drugstore wine that’s dividing America. It deserves your respect.
• Bon Appetit: Josh Wine Was Viral Long Before the Memes
• Mashable: Sip back, relax, and enjoy these Josh wine memes because the internet has just discovered Josh Cellars. Everyone on the internet is now a sommelier
• Fox Business: $8 'Josh' wine takes internet by storm, maker having 'good laugh' at all the memes
• Food & Wine: Josh Cellars Wine Is all Over the Internet Right Now — Here's Why. Get in on the joke
• Business Insider: A $9 bottle of wine is going viral on X because its name is 'Josh'

And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Josh Wines is having its moment, and in this episode we are going to talk about why AND as we record this, I have not yet titled this episode. We have never done this before, but I am going to wait until we are finished recording this episode because I want to see what we really think, what our really feelings are, about the Josh Cellars wines we are going to taste and review today, and I am going to give this episode one of a couple of possible titles when it is all over, either

Josh Wines are worth the hype or Josh Wines suck or Josh wines Meh or something along those lines after we give our real, live, at least as we are recording this, review. 

So what exactly has been going on, Carmela? Well, early in the year, at the beginning of January, X, or Twitter if you prefer, both of which are just stupid names BTW but I digress, exploded with posts and memes about Josh Cellar Wines - memes where people put Josh wines at The Last Supper or with John Hamm from Mad Men giving a pitch on the name. There are even posts that have been more focused on Josh being a real human being - and if you follow us on X, or Threads, or Bluesky, I have been playing around with this a little bit. With very little fanfare, ok. I can admit it. 

But the Josh marketing team is loving it. Not that they were having trouble because they have been one of the highest selling wine brands in the US for several years. But no one is going to complain about more publicity.

The real question, and the thing we are going to focus on in this episode, Carmela, is this: is all the hype worth it, or is it another overrated, mass market wine that the American wine industry is shoving down our throats because people don’t know better? Or am I just overworked about something that is just good fun and I need to take myself a little less seriously?!?

Well, we are going to find out. All of us. You, me, Hermione, all of you out there in listening land. We are going to dive into what Josh Cellars is exactly, and then we are going to taste and review three Josh Cellars wines, and we will tell you the real real of what we think about their wines, and then we are going to give this episode a title . . . 

But first . . . we have to do our shameless plug.

First, we want to thank you for listening to us and for supporting our show, and if you have not had the chance to do so yet, now would be the perfect time to subscribe to our podcast  - it is a free way to support us, and then you never have to miss a show!  - and a huge thank you to all of you who have subscribed already! 

And, another great way to support is to leave a nice rating and review on our website or on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or other podcast service so we can continue to grow our listeners.

You can also follow us and see pictures of the wines we are tasting and trying today on Instagram  at thewinepairpodcast, and you can contact us on our website thewinepairpodcast.com, and you can sign up for our email newsletter there and get news and food and wine pairing ideas and more!

And, as we do every week, we’ll tell you someone we think you should tell about The Wine Pair Podcast. This week, we want you to tell anyone who drinks Josh wine or is curious about Josh wine, or even better, doesn’t know what the hell Josh wine even is - and you send them this episode so they can get some edumacation, and maybe this will spur some fun discussions and friendly arguments. 

ARTICLES and LINKS

• https://slate.com/human-interest/2024/01/josh-cellars-wine-memes-explained-red-cabernet.html
• https://www.bonappetit.com/story/josh-wines-viral-memes 
• https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/8-josh-wine-takes-internet-storm-maker-having-good-laugh-memes 
• https://mashable.com/article/josh-wine-memes-jokes
• https://www.foodandwine.com/josh-cellars-wine-memes-explained-8548160 
• https://www.businessinsider.com/bottle-of-wine-going-viral-twitter-because-twitter-josh-2024-1

Topic: WTF Is Up With Josh Wine? 08:17

Ok, Carmela, let’s talk a little bit about what the fuck Josh Cellars wine is all about. First, let’s just be clear that you can find Josh Cellars wine everywhere. And I mean everywhere. 

For some facts, as of 2023 Josh Cellars is the top selling premium wine in the US, and they sell about 5 million cases of wine each year. According to Yahoo! Finance, they are #15 on the list of the top 30 most popular wine brands in the US.

And just for context, because it is confusing, and we have tons of articles that you can check out in our show notes if you go to our website and look for this episode, the wine industry delineates wine tiers by how much they sell for in stores - by that I mean their price band. So, The wine industry categorizes wines as follows by their retail price

• Value ($4–$10)
• Popular premium ($10–$15)
• Premium ($15–$20)
• Super premium ($20–$30)
• Ultra premium ($30–$50)
• Luxury ($50–$100)
• Super luxury ($100–$200)
• Icon ($200 or more)

So, Josh wines are in the affordable-ish range for most people, not cheap, but certainly not going to break the bank, and definitely in the ballpark for the wines we review on this podcast.

And that’s part of what made the memes take off. Because Josh is very popular, Josh is widely available, and for many people, Josh is a relatively expensive wine or special occasion kind of wine, and so for a lot of people, they have expectations that Josh is probably a pretty good wine, especially for those who feel like Josh is either their go-to wine, or their splurge wine. 

A great article from Punch that we also have a link to talks about Josh wine as the “Zara” of wine, a fast-fashion of wine if you will. Which means it’s sort of cool but everyone also knows it’s not a $100 Bordeaux or Burgundy or Napa Cab. But maybe it’s a step up from Barefoot or Menage a Trois or Cupcake or Yellow Tail wines. 

Josh also makes what I would call the typical, popular in the US, wine varietals which have come to define how the normal or average American wine drinker thinks about wine. For good or for bad, although for me it is on the bad side of things. I am talking about Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot, Chardonnay, Sauvignon Blanc - all of the names of wines that Americans are comfortable and familiar with, and lack the snobbery or opacity of names like Burgundy or Bordeaux or Sancerre. So Josh is reliable, easy to pronounce, easy to remember, and easy to understand. Brands, afterall, are meant to be shortcuts, ways for us to associate something we want (or don’t want) with a simple name. So, for some folks, Josh is a shortcut to pretty good. 

I personally love the idea that a wine like Josh may actually get people to start talking about and become curious about wine and get them interested in learning more about wine. I mean, that is what our podcast is trying to do, and through memes, the people who talk about Josh have done that en masse.

People who I would say are like us - self-taught wine aficionados, or who at least think we are - have called Josh the Toyota Camry of wines, which is not meant to be a compliment. However, professional wine reviewers, like Wine Enthusiast and Wine Spectator have rated the wines in the 80-89 range, which are good scores. And millions of wine drinkers can’t all be wrong. 

Or can they?!?

Now, our daughter who is a going to be a Registered Dietician here very soon would say we should not “yuck someone else’s yum,” so I am keeping that in mind, but I do want to know if Josh Wine is any good. At least from our perspective if it is any good. 

So, on that note, I think it’s time to learn a little more about the specific wines we are drinking today. Whaddya say?

ARTICLES and LINKS

• https://www.forbes.com/sites/lmowery/2019/10/22/what-is-luxury-wine/?sh=6f615e533bc3 
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Cellars 
• https://finance.yahoo.com/news/30-most-popular-wine-brands-164859853.html?guccounter=1 
• https://goodonyou.eco/what-is-fast-fashion/

Josh Wines We Chose for This Episode 16:01

As usual, all of the wines we have chosen for this episode are under $20, and all of them should be VERY easy to find because I bought them all at a local Fred Meyer store, which is a Kroger brand store, but I can guarantee that you can find Josh Cellars wines basically anywhere. I bet you can even find them at 7-11 stores. This is a popular, ubiquitous wine!

Now, an editorial note before we get much further. Those of you who listen to us often know that we are not huge fans of Cabernet Sauvignon or Chardonnay, particularly the California or American style of those wines. But, we know that those wines are very popular, and those are likely the top selling Josh Cellars wines. I won’t go into a ton of detail on why we don’t like them except to say that they tend to be very oaky, they tend to be super tannic and hot or alcoholy, and they tend to have “punch you in face” qualities to the taste. In wine parlance, we would call that over-extracted, but when we talk about it, we just say that these are cocktail wines, wines that are not necessarily meant to be drunk with food, and whose purpose is to give you a massive punch of flavor. Not our favorite kinds of wine, but we are going to be open-minded. 

Those of you who listen to us also know we love Pinot Noir, so to be fair, we have those three wines from Josh Cellars we are tasting and reviewing today.

I will also say that, as far as I can tell, all of these wines have received an 88 rating from Wine Enthusiast, which are pretty darn good ratings. So, we are giving old Josh a real opportunity here. 

The first wine we are going to taste from Josh Cellars is their 2022 California Chardonnay. According to their website, they actually have three different Chardonnays, including one called Butter Chardonnay and another called North Coast Chardonnay, but today we are trying their basic Chardonnay.

I will say that their website does not give a ton of information about the wines. Typically, I would expect to see a little information at least about how long the wine fermented, what kind of oak was used, things of that nature, but the website says nada, which may just tell us what we need to know about the people who love this wine, and that is they just don’t really care all that much. 

One positive about this wine - it is a screw cap and we love a good screw cap!

So, on to the next wine, the 2021 California Cabernet Sauvignon. Again, there several Cabernet Sauvignons that Josh makes, in fact, on the website I saw 6, including a bourbon barrel aged version that I am sure is a total oak bomb and would give me a splitting headache, as well as a North Coast, Paso Robles, and Alexander Valley. This is their “normal” Cab Sauv, and they do have a new wine called “Hearth” which basically sounds like a marketing ploy, but what do I know?!?

I was able to find a technical sheet for the 2016 Cabernet Sauvignon, which may not be applicable to the 2021, and is really not much of a tech sheet, only giving information like alcohol content, acidity, and residual sugar. Again, not much else to tell you, so we will move onto the last wine.

The last wine we are going to try is the Josh Cellars Central Coast Pinot Noir from 2022. Like all of the other wines we are tasting, Wine Enthusiast gave this wine an 88, which is a good score, and, interestingly enough, like all of the other wines we are trying tonight, it is 13.5% alcohol. I will say that the previous vintage, the 2021 vintage got a 92 from Wine Enthusiast, which is a really good score and they called it a Best Buy.

You’ll find this shocking, but the website did not give much information about this wine, either. How strange. I do have to say, I am finding it a bit annoying that they won’t give more information about how the wines are made, including what processes they use, etc. You may not care out there in listening land, but I can pretty much guess from the lack of information that these are not low intervention wines, they are very likely fined and filtered, which also means they are not vegan, and it is highly doubtful they are organic or sustainably sourced. Again, you may not care, but I would think that the brand would call that out if it were the case. 

The website Barnivore does say that the company has informed them that their wines are not vegan, although they may have been several years ago. 

And, some people are sensitive to additives like sulfur and fining agents, so that may be important. 

Ok. I think that is enough information, because now comes the moment of truth. In a few seconds here, we are going to taste and review these Josh wines, and we are going to tell you our honest, no holds barred opinion of these wines. For those of you who may not listen to us as often, we will let you know that we buy our own wines, and we are not sponsored or supported by any wineries, distributors, or retailers, and we have not had any contact with anyone involved with Josh wines. So this will be the real deal!

If you are ready to hear the honest to God truth about Josh wines, stay tuned!

ARTICLES and LINKS

• https://buywinesonline.com/products/josh-cellars-cabernet-sauvignon-2021-750-ml
• https://msntayler.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Josh-Cellars-Cabernet.pdf
• https://www.barnivore.com/products/24965-josh-cellars-cabernet-sauvignon 

Josh Cellars Chardonnay, Cabernet Sauvignon, and Pinot Noir Wine Pairing Tasting and Reviews 23:30

Wine: Josh Cellars Chardonnay (Click here to find this wine on wine.com. Affiliate link.)
Region: California
Year: 2022
Price: $11.99
Retailer: Fred Meyer (Kroger)
Alcohol: 13.5%
Grapes: Chardonnay
Professional Rating: WE 88

What we tasted and smelled in this Josh Cellars Chardonnay:

• On the nose: Apple, stone fruit, nectarine, peach, vanilla, light oak, pear, citrus, butterscotch
• In the mouth: Rich, buttery mouthfeel, light oak, fruity, apple, peach cobbler, brown sugar, baking spice, apple crumb, lemon

Food to pair with this Josh Cellars Chardonnay: Fish and chips, spicy foods, creamy pastas, seafood pasta, seafood, shellfish, fried fish, french fries, potato chips, crowd pleaser
 
As a reminder on our rating scale, we rate on a scale of 1-10, where 7 and above means that we would buy it, and 4 and below means that we are likely to pour it down the sink, and a 5 or 6 means we are likely to drink it and finish it, but we are probably not going to buy it. 

Josh Cellars Chardonnay Wine Rating: 

• Joe: 6/10
• Carmela: 6/10

Wine: Josh Cellars Cabernet Sauvignon (Click here to find this wine on wine.com. Affiliate link)
Region: California
Year: 2021
Price: $12.99
Retailer: Fred Meyer (Kroger)
Alcohol: 13.5%
Grapes: Cabernet Sauvignon
Professional Rating: WE 88

What we tasted and smelled in this Josh Cellars Cabernet Sauvignon:

• On the nose: Plum, blackberry jam, jammy, fruity, juicy, plum juice, grapey, smoke, wood, matchstick 
• In the mouth: Wood, smoke, campfire, jammy, flabby - needs more alcohol to give it flavor, plum, fruit juice, cedar, leather belt, strong matchstick aftertaste, campfire, charcoal, rose potpourri, grit

Food to pair with this Josh Cellars Cabernet Sauvignon: Pizza, steak, cheeseburger, grilled meat

Josh Cellars Cabernet Sauvignon Wine Rating: 

• Joe: 5/10
• Carmela: 5/10

Wine: Josh Cellars Central Coast Pinot Noir (Click here to find this wine on wine.com. Affiliate link)
Region: California, Central Coast
Year: 2022
Price: $14.99
Retailer: Fred Meyer (Kroger)
Alcohol: 13,5%
Grapes: Pinot Noir
Professional Rating: WE 88 

What we tasted and smelled in this Josh Cellars Central Coast Pinot Noir:

• On the nose: Strawberry, raspberry, earth, vegetables, green pepper, tomato, wood
• In the mouth: Insipid, tangy, sour, tart, underripe cherry, underripe raspberry, raspberry bramble, wood, box, pencil, metal, red wine vinegar

Food to pair with this Josh Cellars Central Coast Pinot Noir: Pizza, burger, game day foods, mozzarella sticks, mozzarella sticks, cheesy, soft pretzel with cheese


Josh Cellars Central Coast Pinot Noir Wine Rating: 

• Joe: 4/10
• Carmela: 5/10

Which one of these are you finishing tonight?

• Carmela: Josh Cellars Chardonnay
• Joe: Josh Cellars Chardonnay

Taste profiles expected from Chardonnay, Cabernet Sauvignon, and Pinot Noir   42:05

• Josh Cellars Chardonnay
  • Typical for oaky according to Wine Folly: peach, mango, lemon, vanilla, butter, toasted bread, nuts 
  • Winery: a great balance of bright citrus and honey with a touch of oak character and hints of juicy peach.
  • WE: An all-around well-balanced wine, this offers notes of lemon, lime, jasmine blossom, white peach and nectarine. The palate is driven by a solid dose of acidity, assisted by a slight spritz that adds the needed energy
• Josh Cellars Cabernet Sauvignon
  • Typical for California: Black currant, blackberry, pencil lead, tobacco, mint, black cherry, cedar, baking spices
  • BuyWinesOnline: Aromas of blackberry and toasted hazelnut, followed by a warm cinnamon spice that adds a layer of complexity. As you savor each sip, flavors of blackberry continue to develop on the palate, complemented by hints of vanilla and toasted oak that add depth and texture.
  • WE: Well-balanced overall, this simple Cabernet Sauvignon has a lightness and brightness of fresh fruits that sit well along the darker tones of dried fruits as well. Find aromas and flavors of prune, raisin, fresh and dried blueberry, licorice, dark chocolate and fresh fennel.
• Josh Cellars Central Coast Pinot Noir
  • Typical for California Pinot Noir according to Wine Folly: Sweet black cherry to black raspberry and secondary aromas of vanilla, clove, coca-cola, and caramel. Mushroom, hibiscus
  • Winery: lush cherry and strawberry flavors with a hint of lightly toasted oak
  • WE: Black cherry, cola and turned-earth aromas meet on the nose of this bottling. Pleasant flavors of roasted cherry and strawberry are enhanced by wild thyme and chaparral herbs on the palate

Outro and how to find The Wine Pair Podcast 44:38

Ok, so, Carmela, it is just about time for us to go, but before we do, we want to thank you very much for listening to us - and if you haven’t done so yet, now would be the perfect time to subscribe to our podcast and also a fantastic time to leave us a nice rating and review on our website or Apple podcasts or other podcast service - and it is an awesome and free way to support us and help us grow listeners.

We would also love to hear from you about a wine you would like us to taste and review. You can, leave a message for us on our website thewinepairpodcast.com and you can join our email newsletter there, too, or you can just email us at joe@thewinepairpodcast.com and tell us about a wine you are curious about, or curious what we think of it. And, follow us on Instagram and Threads so you can see pictures of all of these wines we are tasting and reviewing.

Alright, with that, we are going to sign off, so thanks again, and we will see you next time. And, as we say, life is short, so stop drinking shitty wine.


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